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Author	Topic: Inside Line: our Chevy Volt's battery miles cost more than the gas ones	Post a Reply Back to Topics

ktbaeohana Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:2,311 Points:422,975 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: Nov 12, 2010 4:07:54 PM Ignore ktbaeohana Report Abuse During its time with us, our 2011 Chevy Volt tester consumed energy at the rate of 39.0 kilowatt-hours per 100 miles when in electric-only mode and averaged 31.1 mpg in gas engine assistance mode. We paid an average of $0.31 per kilowatt-hour of electricity and $3.31 per gallon of 91 octane swill, so the magic of arithmetic tells us that each one of the Volt's miles driven on electricity cost us more money than if it'd simply consumed gasoline instead. That's due in part to our high electricity rate - had our rate dropped to $0.24 per kilowatt-hour, we'd have reached parity on a cost-per-mile basis between electrons and dinosaurs.

ktbaeohana

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Las Vegas

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Message Posted: Nov 12, 2010 4:07:54 PM

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During its time with us, our 2011 Chevy Volt tester consumed energy at the rate of 39.0 kilowatt-hours per 100 miles when in electric-only mode and averaged 31.1 mpg in gas engine assistance mode. We paid an average of $0.31 per kilowatt-hour of electricity and $3.31 per gallon of 91 octane swill, so the magic of arithmetic tells us that each one of the Volt's miles driven on electricity cost us more money than if it'd simply consumed gasoline instead. That's due in part to our high electricity rate - had our rate dropped to $0.24 per kilowatt-hour, we'd have reached parity on a cost-per-mile basis between electrons and dinosaurs.

REPLIES (newest first)

ronaldo13 Sophomore Author Edmonton Posts:235 Points:4,800 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Feb 19, 2011 9:56:27 AM Ignore ronaldo13 Report Abuse Has someone here actually purchased a VOLT? If so what was the actual cost? If you are going to buy an electric car you should buy an 100% electric one. Plus you will need solar panels to generate your own power or you will wind up in the same boat as we are in now with gasoline. Power companies will take over screwing you as the oil companies do now. We will have to have an independent source of energy free of CORPORATE ROBBERS.
MrNemo Sophomore Author Miami Posts:247 Points:220,945 Joined:Aug 2009	Message Posted: Feb 19, 2011 7:48:24 AM Ignore MrNemo Report Abuse You live in Las Vegas too bad the car doesn't come with solar recharging. As the fuel prices continue to rise you will do better assuming the price electricity doesn't get jacked up also.
gvan Champion Author Chicago Posts:21,533 Points:2,836,290 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Dec 5, 2010 1:28:33 PM Ignore gvan Report Abuse "You are supposed to run your vehicle to operating temperature for a while to get condensation (water) out of your oil for longer oil life." 95% of my driving is city miles and most of my driving trips are from 2-5 miles in length. Yet my oil life monitor has never told me to change oil before 5,000 miles.
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,014 Points:820,075 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Dec 3, 2010 8:06:11 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse Like many others enthused about Volt, the Motor Trend article on the costs of operating the Volt fails to accurately measure the electricity that the the Volt uses. While they do note that the Volt's available battery capacity is 12.8 kW-hr, it takes more than that 12.8 kWH to actually charge the battery. Also, the electric rate cost underestimates the true cost, since US electric rates are steeply graduated, and significant use results in higher rates. Here in California, rates can run as high as $0.34/kWH. While I haven't yet seen GM publish the actual charging energy required to restore that 12.8 kWH, lets estimate it at say, 15kWH, a round number for easy comparison. If it really got you the full 40 miles, then actual cost might be (15 x $.034), or $5.10. So much for accurate reporting.
nurtlh Rookie Author Dallas Posts:78 Points:35,470 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Dec 3, 2010 11:46:47 AM Ignore nurtlh Report Abuse The Chevy Volt just won "Car of the Year" from Motor Trend magazine. The Volt beat out 21 other contenders. On page 76 of the January 2011 issue of Motor trend I quote " Using EPA average figures of 12cents per k-W-hr for electricity, and $2.80 for a gallon of gas, the Volt cost 3.8cents per mile to run in EV mode and 7 cents per mile to run in with the gas engine running." FWIW I pay 11.5 cents per k-W-hr and premium is around $2.85/gallon in my area so the numbers will vary but the EV mode is cheaper than engine mode by a wide margin.
2khawk Champion Author Iowa Posts:5,259 Points:928,025 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Dec 3, 2010 10:27:01 AM Ignore 2khawk Report Abuse You are supposed to run your vehicle to operating temperature for a while to get condensation (water) out of your oil for longer oil life. These gasoline engines in hybrids seem like they don't run long enough to accomplish this.
camel1 Champion Author Minnesota Posts:8,270 Points:2,266,615 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Dec 3, 2010 5:25:43 AM Ignore camel1 Report Abuse not at all surprising that the electric consumption would make it more expensive than gasoline
Skyjunky Veteran Author Portland Posts:482 Points:89,445 Joined:Oct 2004	Message Posted: Dec 2, 2010 11:19:46 PM Ignore Skyjunky Report Abuse And to top it off the medow muffins cannot see this "fuel/electric cars " get the power from a clean burning coal source does not make to much sense,,
the1roadhog Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,908 Points:2,055,805 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Dec 2, 2010 8:38:52 AM Ignore the1roadhog Report Abuse Math equations while we drive along, drive along, math......
Maintroll Champion Author Lexington Posts:8,634 Points:1,703,135 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Dec 2, 2010 8:16:27 AM Ignore Maintroll Report Abuse That is going to be the problem with all of these electric cars.
Hemond Champion Author Providence Posts:8,185 Points:133,525 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Dec 2, 2010 6:13:52 AM Ignore Hemond Report Abuse <<<<"What genius at GM decided to use an engine that requires premium fuel?">>> . . . There has got to be a good reason for this. The Smart car also requires premium, and the Smart is certainly not targeted toward upscale buyers like the Volt. . . Design engineers at GM and Mercedes must know what they are doing. But it sure is puzzling. Requiring premium is a huge black eye. The engineers and upper management know this well and have taken the trade off. The only explanation is there is a good reason which we don't know about. ..
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,014 Points:820,075 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Dec 1, 2010 8:14:32 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse chemist74 asks: "What genius at GM decided to use an engine that requires premium fuel?" Well, I have wondered that too. I don't have an inside line to GM engineering, BUT, my guess is that they tried to maximize the power to weight ratio of the gasoline engine, AND, for manufacturing reasons, limited themselves to existing tooling and manufacturing for current engines. The 1.4 liter engine was probably the smallest, lightest that they had in the inventory, and they figured that few buyers would exceed the 40 mile battery range, making the premium fuel price relatively unimportant. Another possibility is that market research demonstrates that buyers of cars as expensive as $41K don't consider the premium fuel a factor. Certainly buyers of vehicles such as Mercedes and BMW's don't. What's your guess? [Edited by: E-Squirrel at 12/1/2010 8:17:35 PM EST]
Saxywolf All-Star Author Allentown Posts:783 Points:207,005 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2010 10:35:17 AM Ignore Saxywolf Report Abuse Maybe less pollution/mile then fuel (assuming they get a choice of power supply and choose green energy which I think is usually more expensive) But most people simply can't afford it and I'd venture that most don't know they can't even if up front price difference is negated by the government or other. Thank you for posting details of your experience. It helps many others who are considering going green.
Hemond Champion Author Providence Posts:8,185 Points:133,525 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2010 9:32:49 AM Ignore Hemond Report Abuse There is a concern with the supply of Lithium for the batteries. Just about all of the world's supply is found in Bolivia, an unstable South American country. . . If we become dependent on lithium based batteries, we are now subject to the whims of a foreign state. One which could easily become a clone of Venezuela. .. Right now Bolivia is relatively unimportant, but if it becomes a world lithium power (which it is) every political opportunist world wide will move in. .. So instead of buying oil form dozens of Arab countries (who hate each other more than they hate us) we will be buying our lithium from one unstable country. There is no other place to get it.
rumbleseat Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:22,926 Points:3,530,310 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Nov 24, 2010 1:58:59 AM Ignore rumbleseat Report Abuse Hemond, Manitoba is a net exporter of electricity, and we don't generate a lot of it burning natural gas. We have massive hydro-electric stations, and export a lot across the border to American power companies.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,055 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2010 9:21:25 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse "Don't forget to get people to buy these all electric cars the government is giving people who buy one $7500. Here in north IA my Electric cost is up to 11 cents per KWh and will go high if the state gives the utility the rest of rate hike they requested. Also if the Nissan Leaf does not use Gas of any kins then how can it be rated at 99 MPG aka miles per gallon of gas used. Lets not forget how much fuel it take to get the ore, the ore to china and then shipped to whom ever to make the batteries on and on and then get them shipped here to be used". Liberals aren't good at coming to terms with with reality. Just give them little tasks to do that make them feel good about them selves.
Cummins2500 Champion Author Iowa Posts:3,128 Points:752,375 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2010 3:07:09 PM Ignore Cummins2500 Report Abuse Don't forget to get people to buy these all electric cars the government is giving people who buy one $7500. Here in north IA my Electric cost is up to 11 cents per KWh and will go high if the state gives the utility the rest of rate hike they requested. Also if the Nissan Leaf does not use Gas of any kins then how can it be rated at 99 MPG aka miles per gallon of gas used. Lets not forget how much fuel it take to get the ore, the ore to china and then shipped to whom ever to make the batteries on and on and then get them shipped here to be used.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,055 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2010 11:09:12 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse We recycle car batteries. Also people are encouraged to recycle other lap top, phone batteries and such at electronics stores. If you have a used up 50 pound Nickel metal hydride battery I dont think it will be too hard to find some one to take it.
Z06KY Champion Author Louisville Posts:5,145 Points:905,715 Joined:Nov 2010	Message Posted: Nov 23, 2010 3:20:02 AM Ignore Z06KY Report Abuse I try to read as much as possible on the Electric automobile. What I have founds is what a lot of you have found. The cost is high. And what if your electric was out at home (from storm) and the car was low? Maybe a generator? Using gas to power it. Also that electric power comes from a lot of different fuel types. i.e. coal, nuclear power plants. Also I really don't know where the batterys are taken after they wear out?
gvan Champion Author Chicago Posts:21,533 Points:2,836,290 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Nov 22, 2010 5:41:30 PM Ignore gvan Report Abuse Supposedly the Nissan Leaf has been EPA rated at 99 mpg. No word on the Volt yet.
gvan Champion Author Chicago Posts:21,533 Points:2,836,290 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Nov 22, 2010 5:39:55 PM Ignore gvan Report Abuse "The situation is worse than described. If the traction battery actually lasts the claimed 100,000 miles" Nothing has been said about the life of the batteries. They are guaranteed to last 100,000 miless. The life of the batteries may be indefinite just like on the Prius.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,055 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 22, 2010 4:22:03 PM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse LasVegas gets most of its power from the Hoover dam. I thought hydro power was cheap. I guess alternatives aren't that cheap after all. My power costs $.10/kwh and most of that comes from coal, natural gas and nuclear. [Edited by: oilpan4 at 11/22/2010 4:22:31 PM EST]
bluenvoy Champion Author Nashville Posts:14,969 Points:1,876,665 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Nov 22, 2010 9:56:00 AM Ignore bluenvoy Report Abuse That's true with most every Hybrid and plug in cars. The stupid buyers think the electricity is free.
Hemond Champion Author Providence Posts:8,185 Points:133,525 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 22, 2010 2:37:06 AM Ignore Hemond Report Abuse You know who is going to buy this car? The Hollywood glitterati and the Martha's Vineyard crowd. The Volt is going to become the poster child car of political correctness. I'll lay odds that Larry David, Carley Simon, Susan Sarandon, and Tim Robbins already have orders in.
Hemond Champion Author Providence Posts:8,185 Points:133,525 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 22, 2010 2:25:59 AM Ignore Hemond Report Abuse <<<31 cents per kilowatt hour? Wow, that's some expensive electricity! Rates here are 6.38¢/kWh for the first 900, then the balance of kWh at 5.57¢/kWh. >>>> . . I pay 15¢/kWh here in the northeast US. (including all taxes/fees) If you are paying 6¢/kWh CN then yes that is dirt cheap. You must be near the gas/oil supply lines coming in from Alberta. We get our electricity from natural gas supplied by pipeline from Nova Scotia.
OilerFan Champion Author Tulsa Posts:14,045 Points:2,447,575 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Nov 22, 2010 1:24:31 AM Ignore OilerFan Report Abuse Yep. Isn't this just the most idioc thing? Didn't someone do the math on this before putting it out on the market?
rumbleseat Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:22,926 Points:3,530,310 Joined:Oct 2002	Message Posted: Nov 22, 2010 12:57:10 AM Ignore rumbleseat Report Abuse 31 cents per kilowatt hour? Wow, that's some expensive electricity! Rates here are 6.38¢/kWh for the first 900, then the balance of kWh at 5.57¢/kWh.
Hemond Champion Author Providence Posts:8,185 Points:133,525 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2010 1:33:53 AM Ignore Hemond Report Abuse <<<<The situation is worse than described. If the traction battery actually lasts the claimed 100,000 miles and only costs $10,000 by the time one needs replacement...>>>> . . Holy f'n Moley! I've heard the $10,000 figure for the battery, but didn't realize the projected life was only 100,000. So suppose it takes 8 years to get to 100K miles. Is someone going to spend $10grand for repairs on an 8 year old car? Thats totally nuts and not going to happen.
Hemond Champion Author Providence Posts:8,185 Points:133,525 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Nov 21, 2010 1:29:24 AM Ignore Hemond Report Abuse The Volt needs premium? YOu gotta be kidding me. First the ridiculous Smart car and now the Volt? If what you say is true, then the Volt is shaping up to be an even bigger loser than the Edsel. No way is this car going to sell. . . I'm a GM lover and Chevy fan boy but there is simply no love for this car.
GrumpyCat Champion Author Alabama Posts:2,611 Points:789,785 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2010 1:34:45 PM Ignore GrumpyCat Report Abuse The situation is worse than described. If the traction battery actually lasts the claimed 100,000 miles and only costs $10,000 by the time one needs replacement then there is an additional $0.10/mile of operating costs. 39.0 kWh at $0.31/kWh is $12.09. But battery wear is an optimistic additional $10 per 100 miles while gasoline cost was only $10.64.
gvan Champion Author Chicago Posts:21,533 Points:2,836,290 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2010 8:55:20 AM Ignore gvan Report Abuse How about a link to this site? It's hard to believe the battery operation costs more than gas operation. I've seen figures of $1.50 per day for charging cost. Even if it was $3.00 a day in your area, how far can you go on $3.00 of gasoline?
chemist74 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:13,510 Points:2,395,980 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2010 8:49:54 AM Ignore chemist74 Report Abuse What genius at GM decided to use an engine that requires premium fuel?
WEPSMAN Champion Author South Dakota Posts:10,513 Points:2,024,050 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2010 8:29:46 AM Ignore WEPSMAN Report Abuse Did you think about this before you bought the Volt? I looked at cost per mile when I bought my truckand decided a diesel was the way to go since it cost less per mile to drive than a gas engine.
oilpan4 Champion Author Virginia Posts:12,055 Points:306,800 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Nov 18, 2010 12:57:21 AM Ignore oilpan4 Report Abuse Should have got a diesel.
chelaramie Champion Author Dallas Posts:1,017 Points:364,890 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Nov 17, 2010 10:32:05 AM Ignore chelaramie Report Abuse Tell me the government doesn't lie to us and I'll eat this post!
E-Squirrel Champion Author Orange County Posts:3,014 Points:820,075 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: Nov 12, 2010 6:55:30 PM Ignore E-Squirrel Report Abuse This doesn't surprise me. When thinking of how much money that you could save not buying gas, few people figure out what actual cost of the electricity would be. Knowing this, most promoters of battery-electric vehicles forecast "cost savings" using prices of electricity that are far below generation costs, and could be obtained only by having someone else subsidize one's electric consumption. Unlike other hybrids, the Volt requires premium (high octane) fuel rather than the more pedestrian unleaded variety. There is typically about a $0.20 per gallon premium for this, which makes the break-even point higher...